Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

If the Empire keeps control of Skyrim, The Blades would be an illegal organization and the two remaining members will be put in the hands Aldmeri Dominion's Thalmor agents or simply put to the chopping block by the Empire...

Not gonna happen. They're in hiding and operating from the shadows. The Empire isn't aware of them, doesn't even pursue them, and those who did survive the Great War know pretty damn well that they must remain in hiding until either the Thalmor are gone someday or the sun drops out of the sky.

The Blades have no part in the Civil War. Their focus were the dragons, which were taken care of. Next, I believe they'll try to fight the Thalmor as best they can once they're a bit more stable again. Or perhaps Bethesda lets us read about their total destruction in a book in TES6.

Don't mind me if I personally hope for the latter... I hate Delphine.

 

[Ivory]

And yet he still said this: Your stupid son is dead! He died a Stormcloak traitor".

Incorrect. The Father said this, not the son.

Because mocking and belittling people is a great way to get your point across.

Sorry, Calling out bull is what should be done.

I shouldn't have to persuade your benevolent Military Governor to let someone who is wrongfully being kept prisoner free.

Ah, but he did. He broke the law for being a Talos Worshipper. Morally wrongfully imprisoned yes, lawfully? No. He knew the law, everyone knows the law and they rightfully hide their worship.

Also, yes, you should have to. He is a military power, who are you to come walking in and claiming something? You don't have to try very hard at all. Once you show your loyalty to the Empire, Tulius is willing to use HIS power to free the man. So guess what? The Military Governer has more power than you think.

Hammerfell and Argonia?

Drunken has covered this.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

I would like to apologize for acting a fool. I didn't look into the evidence and tried to act superior to people even though I've clearly stated that I hate people for doing this.

To DrunkenMage: I apologize for again, acting the fool. I will still act upon the Stormcloaks all though I will pick my battles more wisely. Please Accept my formal apology.

To my Stormcloak Brethren: I formally apologize for losing this battle so hard and disgracing our name. please keep up the good fight.

To Vatonage: You fought with me in the fields of Incoherence against Jerimius. Its a shame you've switched although you've done this solely for resourceful reasons. Thank you for this time well spent brother. Hopefully you keep Talos in your heart. May you die with a weapon in your hand and courage in your Heart

To Raijin: Stay strong my friend this war will never end but its not hopeless. we've won in the past we will do so again just not on this day. May you die with a weapon in your hand and courage in your Heart

To Legate Faesendil: Thank you for not being condescending, and for being generally more pleasant than the rest of your army. I could actually have arguments with you that weren't god awful. Again Thank You

To Ivory: eh fluff you, your still a condescending ass and I have no reason to apologize.

To Everyone: I've Shamed and made you think less of me. Please accept my most sincere apologies. Thank you for your time. Ysmir Bless you

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Incorrect. The Father said this, not the son.

Hes still representing the family, yes?

Sorry, Calling out bull is what should be done.

Sure, I agree. Just don't be a dick about it.

Ah, but he did. He broke the law for being a Talos Worshipper. Morally wrongfully imprisoned yes, lawfully? No. He knew the law, everyone knows the law and they rightfully hide their worship.

They shouldn't have to hide their worship.

Also, yes, you should have to. He is a military power, who are you to come walking in and claiming something? You don't have to try very hard at all. Once you show your loyalty to the Empire, Tulius is willing to use HIS power to free the man. So guess what? The Military Governer has more power than you think.

Because the prisoner had no value to the Thalmor you can almost guarantee it would be different with a subject of higher importance. Also, don't you want to kill some Thalmor Bastards that keep people in chains and torture them. Oh no, Its not just Nords I found almost one of every race in there.

Drunken has covered this.

Yet there is no feasible proof

 

[Ivory]

Hes still representing the family, yes?

His wife would disagree.

They shouldn't have to hide their worship.

And they wouldn't have had to if a certain man hadn't agitated about it.

Because the prisoner had no value to the Thalmor you can almost guarantee it would be different with a subject of higher importance.

Considering they were trying to break him to arrest the entirety of the Grey-Mane Family, which would cripple the Companions from the lack of a Forgemaster for the Skyforge, as well as one of the most influential families in Skyrim, yes I'd say he was a very important Prisoner.

To Ivory: eh fluff you, your still a condescending ass and I have no reason to apologize.

Also, it's You're.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

His wife would disagree.

Whats his wife say then?

And they wouldn't have had to if a certain man hadn't agitated about it.

This again. *sigh* well the fact remains that argument doesn't make sense. Why would Ulfric and hundreds if other Stormcloaks even care if they were completely allowed to worship without any Thalmor or Imperial interference.

Considering they were trying to break him to arrest the entirety of the Grey-Mane Family, which would cripple the Companions from the lack of a Forgemaster for the Skyforge, as well as one of the most influential families in Skyrim, yes I'd say he was a very important Prisoner.

Does Eorland Gray-Mane suddenly make weapons for the Imperials which would make that point valid?
Idolaf Battle-Born: Besides Eorlund would never make steel for the legion.
Oh right? No he doesn't.

 

[Ivory]

Whats his wife say then?

Alfhild Battle-Born is a Nordfarmer and a member of Clan Battle-Born living in Whiterun. Jon Battle-Born is her brother, and her parents are Olfrid and Bergritte. She is married to Idolaf, with whom she has a son, Lars. She maintains Battle-Born Farm outside Whiterun and will buy leeks, wheat, andgourds for a harvesting job well done. When approached, she will often comment on the ongoing feud between the Battle-Born and Gray-Mane clans but takes a different view of the feud than her husband and father, saying, "This war's as stupid as our feud with Clan Gray-Mane." and "Need something? Unlike the rest of my family, I've got work to do." She may also reveal that her son Lars often gets bullied: "My boy Lars has been getting beat senseless, and by a girl, no less!" She will also tell you about her brother Jon's interests: "My brother Jon's got the right of it - join the Bards College and avoid this pointless war." She will add, "Too bad he died before he had the chance." if Jon is dead. She exits conversation with either "I'll see you." or "It's back to work, then."

This again. *sigh* well the fact remains that argument doesn't make sense. Why would Ulfric and hundreds if other Stormcloaks even care if they were completely allowed to worship without any Thalmor or Imperial interference.

Power.

Does Eorland Gray-Mane suddenly make weapons for the Imperials which would make that point valid?
Idolaf Battle-Born: Besides Eorlund would never make steel for the legion.
Oh right? No he doesn't.

..What? I don't think you understood. It would weaken Whiterun, Imperial or Stormcloak. If that family is captured, who will run the Skyforge for the Stormcloaks if the Companions joined them? No one.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Alfhild Battle-Born is a Nordfarmer and a member of Clan Battle-Born living in Whiterun. Jon Battle-Born is her brother, and her parents are Olfrid and Bergritte. She is married to Idolaf, with whom she has a son, Lars. She maintains Battle-Born Farm outside Whiterun and will buy leeks, wheat, andgourds for a harvesting job well done. When approached, she will often comment on the ongoing feud between the Battle-Born and Gray-Mane clans but takes a different view of the feud than her husband and father, saying, "This war's as stupid as our feud with Clan Gray-Mane." and "Need something? Unlike the rest of my family, I've got work to do." She may also reveal that her son Lars often gets bullied: "My boy Lars has been getting beat senseless, and by a girl, no less!" She will also tell you about her brother Jon's interests: "My brother Jon's got the right of it - join the Bards College and avoid this pointless war." She will add, "Too bad he died before he had the chance." if Jon is dead. She exits conversation with either "I'll see you." or "It's back to work, then."

Power.

This might Explain Ulfrics intentions but not the hundreds of civilian Stormcloaks and four and a half Jarls who presumably feel the same way as Ulfric and feel that his intentions are justified.

..What? I don't think you understood. It would weaken Whiterun, Imperial or Stormcloak. If that family is captured, who will run the Skyforge for the Stormcloaks if the Companions joined them? No one.

Isn't the main goal of this war to weaken the Empire further so that it'll be easier to take over and in doing so wiping out man will be much easier. What do they care if Whiterun and the Companions are weakened neither of these things are sided in either Political Party.

 

[Ivory]

This might Explain Ulfrics intentions but not the hundreds of civilian Stormcloaks and four and a half Jarls who presumably feel the same way as Ulfric and feel that his intentions are justified.

Four and a half? Who's the half? Besides, Law-Giver has said she knows the ill-intent Ulfric has, that he's not genuine. If the half is Balgruuf, He also does not trust Ulfric when he challenges him and Ulfric decides to be a coward and send his army instead of a fair duel.

Isn't the main goal of this war to weaken the Empire further so that it'll be easier to take over and in doing so wiping out man will be much easier. What do they care if Whiterun and the Companions are weakened neither of these things are sided in either Political Party.

Because Skyrim is run by man. Empire or Not, it is run by men and if the Empire Falls, the Elves will want Skyrim next. They are thinking ahead. Crippling the Companions to no longer have the amazing quality steel that they do and destroying the legacy of Ysgramor is very tempting to Elves, don't you think? One less mercenary group to worry about when they take over Skyrim, the easier it will be.

So yeah, the Grey-Manes are way more important than you give them credit for. Ironic since they are on your side.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

This might Explain Ulfrics intentions but not the hundreds of civilian Stormcloaks and four and a half Jarls who presumably feel the same way as Ulfric and feel that his intentions are justified.

Four and a half? Who's the half? Besides, Law-Giver has said she knows the ill-intent Ulfric has, that he's not genuine.

But she saw the threat of the Thalmor, what they were doing to people, and realized it was the best descision to side with Ulfric. Like Ive said it may prove the ill intent of Ulfric (even though he clearly genuinely want's Talos reinstated) She Realized Ulfric had a valid point about the Thalmor and the Empire.

If the half is Balgruuf, He also does not trust Ulfric when he challenges him and Ulfric decides to be a coward and send his army instead of a fair duel.

Only when hes force to act. Balgruuf in the beginning was a lot more conflicted. He originally says this:
"I'm on the side of Whiterun. No doubt General Tullius and his friends in the Empire will tell you that I owe them my loyalty, and perhaps I do. Ulfric Stormcloak would say that I owe my allegiance to the Nord people as they fight for Skyrim's independence. Perhaps this is also true."

Because Skyrim is run by man. Empire or Not, it is run by men and if the Empire Falls, the Elves will want Skyrim next. They are thinking ahead. Crippling the Companions to no longer have the amazing quality steel that they do and destroying the legacy of Ysgramor is very tempting to Elves, don't you think? One less mercenary group to worry about when they take over Skyrim, the easier it will be.[/quote]
Interesting idea. Although The Skyforge is the real forger of Skyforge Steel. Gray-Mane or no Gray-Mane its qualities are still there and can be worked by anyone with the same ability as Eorlund.

So yeah, the Grey-Manes are way more important than you give them credit for. Ironic since they are on your side.

I think the Gray Manes are very Important just not to the Thalmor. You can agree that the Thalmor would not just give a man away if he had a higher more status Even if the Empire had the right papers.

 

[Ivory]

Interesting idea. Although The Skyforge is the real forger of Skyforge Steel. Gray-Mane or no Gray-Mane its qualities are still there and can be worked by anyone with the same ability as Eorlund.

Considering there is no one in Skyrim with the Grey-Mane's skill, it will be long abandoned.

I think the Gray Manes are very Important just not to the Thalmor. You can agree that the Thalmor would not just give a man away if he had a higher more status Even if the Empire had the right papers.

Actually no I don't agree. Sometimes they have no choice. The leader of the Thalmor herself in Skyrim tried to stop Tullius when he was going to execute Ulfric, a VERY important figurehead. They couldn't stop the Empire at all. Tullius did everything properly and even improperly I'm sure and not only outsmarted the Thalmor, but prevented them from stopping the end of the Rebellion. It was the dragon that saved the Thalmor's hides when you think about it.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Considering there is no one in Skyrim with the Grey-Mane's skill, it will be long abandoned.

Not abandoned. Plenty of people will test their mettle at the Skyforge. I mean, The Orcs have way more skill than Gray-Mane.

Actually no I don't agree. Sometimes they have no choice. The leader of the Thalmor herself in Skyrim tried to stop Tullius when he was going to execute Ulfric, a VERY important figurehead. They couldn't stop the Empire at all. Tullius did everything properly and even improperly I'm sure and not only outsmarted the Thalmor, but prevented them from stopping the end of the Rebellion. It was the dragon that saved the Thalmor's hides when you think about it.

Of course they couldn't do anything the Thalmor couldn't blow their cover. When the enemy side presents Papers and you are obliged to refuse is keeping your cover.

 

[Ivory]

Not abandoned. Plenty of people will test their mettle at the Skyforge. I mean, The Orcs have way more skill than Gray-Mane.

Name one Orc in Skyrim that has Higher Skill with Steel than Grey-Mane. Not to mention Orcs are Loyal to the Empire. Skyforge Steel Weapons are better than everything up to Nordic.

Of course they couldn't do anything the Thalmor couldn't blow their cover. When the enemy side presents Papers and you are obliged to refuse is keeping your cover.

Which contradicts what you said.

I think the Gray Manes are very Important just not to the Thalmor. You can agree that the Thalmor would not just give a man away if he had a higher more status Even if the Empire had the right papers.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Name one Orc in Skyrim that has Higher Skill with Steel than Grey-Mane. Not to mention Orcs are Loyal to the Empire. Skyforge Steel Weapons are better than everything up to Nordic.

Oh lets see theres just so many to choose from.
Ghorza gra-Bagol
Dushnamub
Ulag, who actually worked alongside Eorlund
Basically any Orc Smith alive. Theyre bred straight out of the womb to be Black Smiths

Which contradicts what you said.

Oh, sorry, I was talking about someone of higher status. Perhaps maybe Eorlund or Kodlak.[/quote]

 

[Ivory]

Ghorza gra-Bagol
Dushnamub
Ulag, who actually worked alongside Eorlund

She's not a Master though. She's an Expert yes, Master, no. She has a lot of skill, but not as much as Grey-Mane. In either case, She does not know how to make Skyforge steel. Even the Dragonborn cannot make Skyforge Steel when he uses the Skyforge.

Not every Orc is a Master Blacksmith. Is every Nord a Warrior? Are there no Mages in Nordic culture? Are there no Warrior Elves or Bretons? Come now, you're generalizing again.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Ghorza gra-Bagol
Dushnamub
Ulag, who actually worked alongside Eorlund

She's not a Master though. She's an Expert yes, Master, no. She has a lot of skill, but not as much as Grey-Mane. In either case, She does not know how to make Skyforge steel. Even the Dragonborn cannot make Skyforge Steel when he uses the Skyforge.

Not every Orc is a Master Blacksmith. Is every Nord a Warrior? Are there no Mages in Nordic culture? Are there no Warrior Elves or Bretons? Come now, you're generalizing again.

Well in a game that practically Generalizes every race its hard not to. How many named Nord Mages have you seen 1 maybe 2 how about Orc Mages 1. Of course there are Warrior Elves and Bretons. Can they surpass Nords Orcs and Redguards? Absolutely. Its just more likely that you will see these traits in these select races. Again what about Ulag?

 

[Ivory]

Ghorza gra-Bagol
Dushnamub
Ulag, who actually worked alongside Eorlund

She's not a Master though. She's an Expert yes, Master, no. She has a lot of skill, but not as much as Grey-Mane. In either case, She does not know how to make Skyforge steel. Even the Dragonborn cannot make Skyforge Steel when he uses the Skyforge.

Not every Orc is a Master Blacksmith. Is every Nord a Warrior? Are there no Mages in Nordic culture? Are there no Warrior Elves or Bretons? Come now, you're generalizing again.

Well in a game that practically Generalizes every race its hard not to. How many named Nord Mages have you seen 1 maybe 2 how about Orc Mages 1. Of course there are Warrior Elves and Bretons. Can they surpass Nords Orcs and Redguards? Absolutely. Its just more likely that you will see these traits in these select races. Again what about Ulag?

The only ulag that I found is the dead one in sleeping tree camp. None of the other orcs can train the Dragonborn in smithing as far as I'm aware. Their skill is unknown. Even so, Grey-Mane is the only one confirmed to craft Skyforge Steel. There is more to it than just using steel ingots at the forge.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

She's not a Master though. She's an Expert yes, Master, no. She has a lot of skill, but not as much as Grey-Mane. In either case, She does not know how to make Skyforge steel. Even the Dragonborn cannot make Skyforge Steel when he uses the Skyforge.

Not every Orc is a Master Blacksmith. Is every Nord a Warrior? Are there no Mages in Nordic culture? Are there no Warrior Elves or Bretons? Come now, you're generalizing again.

Well in a game that practically Generalizes every race its hard not to. How many named Nord Mages have you seen 1 maybe 2 how about Orc Mages 1. Of course there are Warrior Elves and Bretons. Can they surpass Nords Orcs and Redguards? Absolutely. Its just more likely that you will see these traits in these select races. Again what about Ulag?

The only ulag that I found is the dead one in sleeping tree camp. None of the other orcs can train the Dragonborn in smithing as far as I'm aware. Their skill is unknown. Even so, Grey-Mane is the only one confirmed to craft Skyforge Steel. There is more to it than just using steel ingots at the forge.

Yes that's Ulag. Read his journal about the Apotheus Armor and how he used Sleeping Tree Sap to make the most flexible armor Tamriel ever saw. He talks about how Eorlund and Him were on equal standing so there, theres one orc who can do it, and so can Dushnamub

 

[Ivory]

Yes that's Ulag. Read his journal about the Apotheus Armor and how he used Sleeping Tree Sap to make the most flexible armor Tamriel ever saw. He talks about how Eorlund and Him were on equal standing so there, theres one orc who can do it, and so can Dushnamub

Your argument still falls flat. Ulag, even if by his account is as skilled as the Grey-Mane, is dead. That doesn't change the fact the Skyforge would remain empty. Plus, by equal standing, I think it's more, he was the only one who could make that flexible armor, which is comparative to Grey-mane being the only one who can craft Skyforge Steel.

And I see Dushnamub is more a Warrior than an Master Blacksmith. Again, nothing indicates he knows how to make Skyforge Steel. It has to be taught, and the only one who knows is Grey-mane who if captured, cannot do so.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Yes that's Ulag. Read his journal about the Apotheus Armor and how he used Sleeping Tree Sap to make the most flexible armor Tamriel ever saw. He talks about how Eorlund and Him were on equal standing so there, theres one orc who can do it, and so can Dushnamub

Your argument still falls flat. Ulag, even if by his account is as skilled as the Grey-Mane, is dead. That doesn't change the fact the Skyforge would remain empty. Plus, by equal standing, I think it's more, he was the only one who could make that flexible armor, which is comparative to Grey-mane being the only one who can craft Skyforge Steel.

And I see Dushnamub is more a Warrior than an Master Blacksmith. Again, nothing indicates he knows how to make Skyforge Steel. It has to be taught, and the only one who knows is Grey-mane who if captured, cannot do so.

I Still don't think it has anything to do with Eorlund Gray Mane. it just happens to be his family tradition and he is also a great smith making amazing steel due to the fact that hes working the Skyforge. Take any other master smith and he/she could do it too.