Empire vs Stormcloaks

[Grogmar Ghrobash]

I must repeat myself because I keep reading the same nonsense over and over again. Perhaps I should dedicate some time to create FAQ and save it on my hard drive therefour each time I see ignorant post like "Ulfric is Racist" or "Ulfric is a murderer" That I can just open up that FAQ and do a copy and paste. It amazes me the excuses that some people use to be on the imperial side. It's actually quite funny if you ask me because what they say cannot be fact up with facts.

I respect the Greybeards but I do not agree with some of the things that they do. Regards to what the greybeards wants to believe in the Thu'um is a tool, a weapon. To that respects Delphine was right when she said that the greybeards are afraid of power, and wont use it.

"The Greybeards were founded by Jurgen Windcaller after a devastating defeat at Red Mountain in Morrowind where he tried to use the voice as a weapon to destroy his enemies. When he failed, he wondered why the voice had failed him. Jurgen went into personal exile near the throat of the world. Through meditiation he learned the way that mortals can understand and use the voice. It was called the Way of the Voice, and it taught a lifestyle of pacifism and meditative study of the Thu'um." Taken off of Lore:Greybeards - UESPWiki

So here we have the founding father of the Graybeards who decided to use the voice as a weapon and came back with devastating results. Perhaps he wasn't the master of the voice? Perhaps he was a pacific person and didn't like what he saw? Either way the Thu'um is a weapon. The Graybeards need to learn and accept it. pushing people to use this gift for medication reasons will only drive many people away, like Ulfric who refuses to watch the world get torn apart. He was about to become part of the group but his heart was in politics.

If the empire gave Ulfric and the people in skyrim free worship to Talos then why is their a ban of talos? Why didn't the empire told the thalmor to go pisss off? I'm certain that the empire would be getting a hell of a lot more support then what they have now. Even one of the Legates from imperial supporting city said that their limit to recruiting the locals.

Your argument about the grey beards is futile. For a time they did use it as a weapon, but once Jurgen Windcaller discovered that he couldn't use it any more he investigated and figured out that Akatosh had taken the voice away from them because they were using it for the wrong purposes. So after that they became who they are in Skyrim today, believers in pacifism and all that. And I can't find anywhere that tells the real reasons why Ulfric left the Grey Beards but I can probably bet you that he only joined the Grey Beards for his advantage and that he has been planning on how to usurp the thrown all these years. Or perhaps the Grey Beards discovered his ill intentions on using the voice and exiled him before he could learn anything more. All just pure speculation. And sorry but when you said " Perhaps he was a pacific person and didn't like what he saw?" what did you mean by being a pacific person?

Their's a ban on talos because that's part of the peace treaty that was made by the Thalmor. Just because the Empire signed it doesn't mean they liked it. They had to sign it in order to rebuild and regain strength. And I'm sure if the Empire had told the Thalmor to "piss" off instead of signing the peace treaty there wouldn't be anything left for the people of Skyrim to support. If you ask me I'd say the Thalmor made those conditions knowing it would cause chaos in the Empire. Part of their divide and conquer strategy which Skyrim is doing an excellent job of executing. By creating the Civil War the Aldmeri now have the perfect opportunity to watch as the Empire struggles and waste resources while they sit back and regain strength for the second Great War. The Thalmor probably made those conditions in the peace treaty with the full intention on weakening the Empire. And I don't see how being limited to having to recruit locals really relates to anything. All it says is that the Empire is as the Aldmeri had planned and is being weakened.

 

[Grogmar Ghrobash]

Hammerfell would be the only logical ally to an independent Skyrim and, even then, what can Hammerfell do to aid Skyrim all that much? Two broken allegiances, Empire and Hammerfell-Skyrim, are still no match for a powerful, organized Dominion.

And not to mention that both provinces would be weakened and low on resources from the recent wars.

 

[Grogmar Ghrobash]

People tend to forget it wasn't just the Empire that was weak before the White-Gold Concordat was sighned. The Aldmeri Dominion were also weak and most of their forces were destroyed. It shouldn't of been sighned. The Empire if they went on the offensive could of won.

Emperor Tides Mede II had actually refused to sign the white gold concordat. It was because of this that the Great War had started, he only signed it when all hope was lost and he would need to have a temporary peace between the Thalmor and the Empire, to rebuild and regain their strength. And even if the Aldmeri were weak at the time the Empire would have been weaker and continuing would have meant their demise.

On the 30th of Frostfall, 4E 171, the Aldmeri Dominion sent an ambassador to the Imperial City with a gift in a covered cart and an ultimatum for the new Emperor. The long list of demands included staggering tributes, disbandment of the

Blades, outlawing the worship of Talos, and ceding large sections of Hammerfell to the Dominion. Despite the warnings of his generals of the Empire's military weakness, Emperor Titus Mede II rejected the ultimatum. The Thalmor ambassador upended the cart, spilling over a hundred heads on the floor: every Blades agent in Summerset and Valenwood. And so began the Great War which would consume the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion for the next five years.[/quote]

I tried making it easier to read but couldn't do it.

 

[Dagmar]

People tend to forget it wasn't just the Empire that was weak before the White-Gold Concordat was sighned. The Aldmeri Dominion were also weak and most of their forces were destroyed.

That's mere speculation. Because the Dominion killed all of the Emperor's Blade spies within it's borders prior to the Great War, the Empire had no way of measuring the size or strength of Dominion military forces within it's borders which is probably why Titus II conceded so much with the White-Gold Concordat.

The Empire if they went on the offensive could of won.

Went on the offensive with what? By the end of the Battle of the Red Ring, three entire Legions had been annihilated and of the remaining Legions less than half of the surviving soldiers were fit for combat duty and there was still a contingent of the Dominion's invading army holding the Southern region of Hammerfell. With Cyrodil ravaged by the invasion and Hammerfell still in a state of warfare, the Imperial Legion was in no shape to launch a blind offensive into enemy territories against undetermined opposition. It was Titus II's assessment that they didn't even have sufficient resources to wage a campaign against the Dominion in Hammerfell while protecting their borders. While that might have been a mistake it would have been foolish to try to march on the Dominion.

 

[Jaeger]

I mean generally, not every issue.

Spoken like a true Obamanite.

 

[Darrell Goodliffe]

In some ways my politics should incline me to side with the rebels, the Stormcloaks, but they do seem highly racist on Ulfric seems like a bit of an ass so, I think my Dark Elf alter ego is going to end up siding with the Empire I think though I have yet to formally choose a side im headed that way....

 

[Grogmar Ghrobash]

If this so called "weak" empire pushed the Dominion out of Cyrodiil, then I am sure the Dominion's soldier were in just as bad or as worse shape.

They didn't push out the Dominion, they signed a treaty and the Dominion left. Their soldiers have nothing to do with it.

 

[Grogmar Ghrobash]

4E 175: The Battle of the Red Ring
During the winter of 4E 174-175, the Thalmor seem to have believed that the war in Cyrodiil was all but over. They made several attempts to negotiate with Titus II. The Emperor encouraged them in their belief that he was preparing to surrender; meanwhile, he gathered his forces to retake the Imperial City. In what is now known as the Battle of the Red Ring, a battle that will serve as a model for Imperial strategists for generations to come, Titus II divided his forces into three. One army, with the legions from Hammerfell under General Decianus, was hidden in the Colovian Highlands near Chorrol. The Aldmeri were unaware that be was no longer in Hammerfell, possibly because the Imperial veterans Decianus had left behind led Lady Arannelya to believe that she still faced an Imperial army. The second army, largely of Nord legions under General Jonna, took up position near Cheydinhal. The main army was commanded by the Emperor himself, and would undertake the main assault of the Imperial City from the north.
"On the 30th of Rain's Hand, the bloody Battle of the Red Ring began as General Decianus swept down on the city from the west, while General Jonna's legionnaires drove south along the Red Ring Road. In a two-day assault, Jonna's army crossed the Niben and advanced west, attempting to link up with Decianus' legions and thus surround the Imperial City. Lord Naarifin was taken by surprise by Decianus' assault, but Jonna's troops faced bitter resistance as the Aldmeri counterattacked from Bravil and Skingrad. The heroic Nord legionnaires held firm, however, beating off the piecemeal Aldmeri attacks. By the fifth day of the battle, the Aldmeri army in the Imperial City was surrounded.
Titus II led the assault from the north, personally capturing Lord Naarifin. It is rumored the Emperor wielded the famed sword Goldbrand, although this has never been officially confirmed by the Imperial government. An attempt by the Aldmeri to break out of the city to the south was blocked by the unbreakable shieldwall of General Jonna's battered legions.
In the end, the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed. The Emperor's decision to withdraw from the Imperial City in 4E 174 was bloodily vindicated. Lord Naarifin was kept alive for thirty-three days, hanging from the White-Gold tower. It is not recorded where his body was buried, if it was buried at all. One source claims he was carried off by winged daedra on the thirty-fourth day."
From the book titled "The Great War"

I stand corrected. But it's still not likely that they could strike at them again while being so weak.

 

[Dagmar]

If this so called "weak" empire pushed the Dominion out of Cyrodiil, then I am sure the Dominion's soldier were in just as bad or as worse shape.

Logic failure. I didn't make any characterizations of the Empire being weak. I simply stated matters of fact about the status of the Imperial Legion. You're making assumptions about the status of the Dominion's overall military strength after the Battle of the Red Ring based on pure speculation. The elimination of the invading portion of a realm's military forces bears no relation to the overall size of that realm's remaining military force. By your line of thinking since the VPA and NLF managed to drive the US out of Vietnam in 1975 they could have marched on to raze Washington DC.

Even if there was a scintilla of evidence to support your speculation, there's a big difference between waging a defensive campaign to repel enemies out of a territory and an offensive one to overtake a territory. Military strategy dictates that an invading force exceed the strength of the defending armed forces to ensure any reasonable chance of success. The Imperial Legion lacked the numbers to form a formidable invading force, especially when you realize it would have had to leave a significant contingent within the Empire to man the front in Hammerfell, defend borders, and maintain order within Cyrodiil, Skyrim and most of Hammerfell. In addition the Empire lacked the resources to maintain a supply line for any invading contingent of the Imperial Legion. The accounts of the Great War make it clear that the Empire needed time to rebuild.

 

[Uther Pundragon]

In closing. The TES Empire is much like the ancient Roman empire. It's only a matter of time before it all collapses. Besides, I'm kind of curious to see what Tamriel will look like under new management.

 

[Grogmar Ghrobash]

In closing. The TES Empire is much like the ancient Roman empire. It's only a matter of time before it all collapses. Besides, I'm kind of curious to see what Tamriel will look like under new management.

Well if by new management you mean the Dominion then I'd say the human race would either be enslaved or at least degraded to the extent of being segregated.

 

[Elenwen The Enlightened]

In closing. The TES Empire is much like the ancient Roman empire. It's only a matter of time before it all collapses. Besides, I'm kind of curious to see what Tamriel will look like under new management.

Tamriel would see a new unprecedented era of enlightenment under the wise and righteous guiding hand of the superior civilization and culture of the Aldmeri Dominion. The Dominion would uplift the culturally, morally and intellectually inferior races of Tamriel which is all we wanted to do in the first place.

The sooner backwards people like the Nords can be educated to abandon their worship of silly false gods like Talos the better it would be for all of Tamriel as such barbaric notions only serve to impede the evolution of Tamriel as a whole. I think you would find that the Aldmeri Dominion is a wonderful and just society. We believe that all beings are equal. Some of us are just more equal than others.

 

[NeoRoman]

It may be just me but Imperials get more attention because they resemble the Romans so much. Plus, they're the most recognizable of peoples since the previous Elder Scrolls had them as a playable faction.

 

[Sweet Rolls]

Empires rise and fall. This Empire started falling when the Septim Dynasty fell. There are two crucial events that happen during the time in which Skyrim is set and played; the victory of one side or the other in the Civil War, and the assassination of Titus Mede II (The Emperor) by a Dark Brotherhood Assassin.

A lot of people are going to side with the Stormcloaks after Helgen, and the victory of the Stormcloaks in the Civil War is highly likely to be written down in TES history, instead of an Imperial victory. The only people who can decide what happens to the Empire next is Bethesda, in the next TES game (or possibly a Skyrim expansion pack), so I'm not biased in favour of the Stormcloaks, I'm just saying that will be the likely outcome of the war when it comes to writing the event in TES history.

After the events of Skyrim, an Empire that has no leader or apparent heirs, a weakened army, the Thalmor waiting to jump on it and only two countries is a pretty plops empire really. But like I said, only Bethesda can decide what happens to it.

My guess would be that the Empire is destroyed completely by the Thalmor, and Skyrim, Hammerfell, and the remnants of Cyrodiil and High Rock, will form an alliance to crush the Dominion once and for all. Then, all of Tamriel's countries will live happily side by side but not as part of an empire, trading and defending the peace together. Morrowind is pretty fluffed up so I'm guessing it will play no part in anything for a long time, and Black Marsh is neutral and an independent kingdom so probably wont do anything either.

But like I said, anything could happen to the Empire and Tamriel in general, after the events of Skyrim.

Who knows what could happen. But what we know for sure is that a Stormcloak victory will be what is written in TES history, alongside the assassination of the Emperor. It doesn't look good for the Empire.

As for my side in the war, I've played both many times, but my current character which is the only one I intend on keeping and I don't think I'm going to do the Civil War quest line on it. I am neutral but if I had to choose a victor it would be the Stormcloaks. Ulfric isn't exactly a saint but Skyrim should be allowed to break free of the grip of the falling Empire.

 

[Grogmar Ghrobash]

Who knows what could happen. But what we know for sure is that a Stormcloak victory will be what is written in TES history, alongside the assassination of the Emperor. It doesn't look good for the Empire.

No, we do not know for sure that a Stormcloak victory will be written in TES History there is nothing to prove that. What you're saying is your opinion not fact.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I go for Imperial, they're not exactly a Thalmor puppet, sure they could of continued fighting, the enemy was destroyed in their land, and they could of taken on the second thalmor army with the Redguards, but they had less than half their own strength, their capital in ruins, morale would of been low, families torn apart the Emperor did a good thing with the treaty, they couldn't continue the war, they still have to protect their people from bandits and creatures, times of war are hard on the common folk supplies get low and bandits attack and if the Legion were to press on they'd need all people who could fight, leaving themselves unprotected inside, I believe the Thalmor bluff when they're all like "The empire lives because we allow it" They wanted to destroy the empire when they invaded, if they were all powerful and could destroy at will, they would have, they signed the treaty with men, that would of been below them had they been all powerful, Since they believe Mer are better than men, they wouldn't sign some treaty with a mere man unless they had to and the Emperor just agreed to the Talos thing, the Legion didn't enforce it, it wasn't until the Stormcloaks started their rebellion and going on about Talos, so the 4th Legion had to step in and be all mean in skyrim. The treaty more than likely protected many lands and saved a lot of lives, as the war would go on both armies would end up destroying themselves. And people complain about "They tried to cut my head off" it was that ONE Captain, the General wasn't even paying attention to you, he was busy with Ulfric, that when he did notice you it was when you were being called to the block, he's a General he would of assumed you were on the list or something, it's why he has people under him to do lists, I mean if he knew he probably would of said something, but you were caught with a traitor several of his men and a horse thief, it's not like they could simply go "If you're not a stormcloak you're free to go, I'll just take your word on it mate, have a good one, safe travels"

 

[Raijin]

Ralof: I've heard some things about Ulfric I don't like, But he's right about this war and about skyrim's future.


Enough said

 

[Raijin]

It may be just me but Imperials get more attention because they resemble the Romans so much. Plus, they're the most recognizable of peoples since the previous Elder Scrolls had them as a playable faction.

Perhaps you are right. Skyrim is my first Elders scroll game so the relationship with the imperials aren't there. The way I see it is that at the beginning of the game they wanted to execute me so why should I go help them out? Why should I join in on the the ranks of the imperials when they were about to kill me? It only proves to me that the Imperials out of control savages, and that Ralof was right when we were heading for Riverwood as he convinced me to become a stormcloak solider.

If the situation was different and they treated me with more respect by giving me a chance to explain to myself then maybe I would've been an empire/Imperial supporter, but no. The snobby captain struggled it off like if my life didn't mean anything to her so screw the weaken empire and screw General Tullius as he could've done something about it.

 

[DrunkenMage]

You were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, happens all the time.

 

[Raijin]

You were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, happens all the time.

Still doesn't give the imperials the right to wrongfully execute me.