Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Jeremius]

Nether do you. they do not have any real intelligence on the dominion, other than what they got from the Great War, which could have been falsified or old information. Fog of War is powerful.

Doubtful the Empire has played with it's thumbs for twenty six years. Without gaining some knowledge of what is in front of their army. Not like the Legion Scouts would have anything else to do. Not to mention the Imperial Rangers, who may scout things out.

The Thalmor conduct purges within Valenwood and many in Elsweyr don't support them either. "Thalmor filth, eh? Giving all Khajiit a bad name." - Ri'saad, about the Thalmor Khajiit Assassin

The Empire could have friends within those borders, people who are willing to give information in hopes the Thalmor will get destroyed.

They COULD. When people invade your homeland, things go south fast. just saying, what is it to say that the Bosmer or Khajiit would help the Empire as a whole over defending their territory from the "invaders"?


Not to mention that these "friends" could be Thalmor agents feeding the Empire false information because the Thalmor know what the Empire is up to.

 

[DrunkenMage]

They COULD. When people invade your homeland, things go south fast. just saying, what is it to say that the Bosmer or Khajiit would help the Empire as a whole over defending their territory from the "invaders"?

Because whatever the Empire is, the Thalmor are worse. Ethic cleansing, racial purges. Wholesale slaughter. No one said as a whole they would help, but there would most likely be many opposed to the Thalmor. It isn't that far fetched, especially given the dialogue between the two races. Resistance is normal, the Thalmor were dealing with internal strife for seventy years. There are many who would welcome the Empire, and many who would oppose it.

Still, even without friends within their borders. Valenwood and Elsweyr are mapped and have been occupied by Legions before. Knowledge of the terrain is well documented, and since the Thalmor are apparently lining up their borders (One of the Jarls apparently mention it during Diplomatic Immunity, but I will have to check it out at some point) If a Jarl knows the Aldmeri Dominion's basic troop movements, not doubt the Empire's vast spies, agents, Imperial Rangers and Legion Scouts would have more detailed reports, being so close to the border.

 

[Jeremius]

They COULD. When people invade your homeland, things go south fast. just saying, what is it to say that the Bosmer or Khajiit would help the Empire as a whole over defending their territory from the "invaders"?

Because whatever the Empire is, the Thalmor are worse. Ethic cleansing, racial purges. Wholesale slaughter. No one said as a whole they would help, but there would most likely be many opposed to the Thalmor. It isn't that far fetched, especially given the dialogue between the two races. Resistance is normal, the Thalmor were dealing with internal strife for seventy years. There are many who would welcome the Empire, and many who would oppose it.

Still, even without friends within their borders. Valenwood and Elsweyr are mapped and have been occupied by Legions before. Knowledge of the terrain is well documented, and since the Thalmor are apparently lining up their borders (One of the Jarls apparently mention it during Diplomatic Immunity, but I will have to check it out at some point) If a Jarl knows the Aldmeri Dominion's basic troop movements, not doubt the Empire's vast spies, agents, Imperial Rangers and Legion Scouts would have more detailed reports, being so close to the border.

Does not mean a thing if they ambush you seemingly out of nowhere.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Does not mean a thing if they ambush you seemingly out of nowhere.

Ambushes happen, part of Legion training. If a single Legion company managed to survive an Oblivion Gate opening smack in the middle of their forces. I'm sure the entire Imperial army can take an ambush or two.

Legions don't march blindly, they use scouts ahead of the main body. Imperial Rangers and Legion Scouts would be used, the Imperial Legion has never marched blindly through an enemy province.

 

[Jeremius]

Does not mean a thing if they ambush you seemingly out of nowhere.

Ambushes happen, part of Legion training. If a single Legion company managed to survive an Oblivion Gate opening smack in the middle of their forces. I'm sure the entire Imperial army can take an ambush or two.

Legions don't march blindly, they use scouts ahead of the main body. Imperial Rangers and Legion Scouts would be used, the Imperial Legion has never marched blindly through an enemy province.

Scouts and rangers getting ambushes is kind of what I meant. Scouts get killed, bad move.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Scouts and rangers getting ambushes is kind of what I meant. Scouts get killed, bad move.

They're trained to move without getting spotted. But even if Scouts and Rangers are ambushed and killed, you've now just alerted a few thousand Legionnaires in a Legion that there is trouble ahead when one of their scouts goes missing.

Scouting details get ambushed, part of the job. But if you ambush them, you just alerted the main force one their scouting party is missing.

 

[Jeremius]

Scouts and rangers getting ambushes is kind of what I meant. Scouts get killed, bad move.

They're trained to move without getting spotted. But even if Scouts and Rangers are ambushed and killed, you've now just alerted a few thousand Legionnaires in a Legion that there is trouble ahead when one of their scouts goes missing.

Scouting details get ambushed, part of the job. But if you ambush them, you just alerted the main force one their scouting party is missing.

True, and that is usually bad, unless your plans involve not being seen, or using assets/assassins to do the job/deception.

Just saying that when it comes to war, letting your enemy make make a mistake, and bulk up your defenses first, is often a better strategy than invading their territory where they can ambush you at any time, remove your scouts and set fighting up between you and the local populace.

 

[DrunkenMage]

True, and that is usually bad, unless your plans involve not being seen, or using assets/assassins to do the job/deception.

Just saying that when it comes to war, letting your enemy make make a mistake, and bulk up your defenses first, is often a better strategy than invading their territory where they can ambush you at any time, remove your scouts and set fighting up between you and the local populace.

Ambushes happen on both sides. Part of war.

 

[Jeremius]

True, and that is usually bad, unless your plans involve not being seen, or using assets/assassins to do the job/deception.

Just saying that when it comes to war, letting your enemy make make a mistake, and bulk up your defenses first, is often a better strategy than invading their territory where they can ambush you at any time, remove your scouts and set fighting up between you and the local populace.

Ambushes happen on both sides. Part of war.

I know, and so does manipulating the local populace to think the guys "liberating" you are trying to slaughter you.

IF a Thalmor soldier who just showed up in Valenwood kills Bosmer dressed as an imperial scout/ranger, who will the Bosmer think the Altmer is with?

 

[DrunkenMage]

I know, and so does manipulating the local populace to think the guys "liberating" you are trying to slaughter you.

IF a Thalmor soldier who just showed up in Valenwood kills Bosmer dressed as an imperial scout/ranger, who will the Bosmer think the Altmer is with?

Doesn't really matter, war has been happening throughout all of Tamriel history. This one will be no different, no point in making it out any differently.

The Legion doesn't really care, they've slaughtered entire villages down to the last women and child during the Tiber Wars. War isn't pretty and citizens of Valenwood and Elsweyr aren't protected as Imperial Citizens.

All is fair, in love and war.

 

[Jeremius]

I know, and so does manipulating the local populace to think the guys "liberating" you are trying to slaughter you.

IF a Thalmor soldier who just showed up in Valenwood kills Bosmer dressed as an imperial scout/ranger, who will the Bosmer think the Altmer is with?

Doesn't really matter, war has been happening throughout all of Tamriel history. This one will be no different, no point in making it out any differently.

The Legion doesn't really care, they've slaughtered entire villages down to the last women and child during the Tiber Wars. War isn't pretty and citizens of Valenwood and Elsweyr aren't protected as Imperial Citizens.

All is fair, in love and war.

Less men and women living=less bodies to take down the Thalmor with.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Less men and women living=less bodies to take down the Thalmor with.

This won't be a diplomatic thing about pleasing the locals. It is military conquest, the Empire isn't there to please you if they're out for conquest. They're there to install their Colovian Military Governors, grant their nobles lands and bring order and civilization.

 

[Jeremius]

Less men and women living=less bodies to take down the Thalmor with.

This won't be a diplomatic thing about pleasing the locals. It is military conquest, the Empire isn't there to please you if they're out for conquest. They're there to install their Colovian Military Governors, grant their nobles lands and bring order and civilization.

This means they are just as bad as the Stormcloaks are to "outsiders" then.

 

[DrunkenMage]

This means they are just as bad as the Stormcloaks are to "outsiders" then.

Never said the Empire was perfect, I've said it many times before. The Empire can also be very cruel. It is a society that considers everyone who isn't a part of their Empire to be savages and barbarians.

"The Legion's always been here. Without us to keep order, the provinces would fall into barbarism and lawlessness. Especially Skyrim."

 

[Jeremius]

This means they are just as bad as the Stormcloaks are to "outsiders" then.

Never said the Empire was perfect, I've said it many times before. The Empire can also be very cruel. It is a society that considers everyone who isn't a part of their Empire to be savages and barbarians.

"The Legion's always been here. Without us to keep order, the provinces would fall into barbarism and lawlessness. Especially Skyrim."

and pride comes before the fall.

 

[DrunkenMage]

As for the Stormcloaks compared to the Empire. The Empire doesn't segregate you, doesn't install racial segregation by law, it also outlaws slavery. Something Skyrim under Stormcloaks tends to do, without the Empire slavery is now legal.

Every race is accepted. Orc Lords, Dunmer Empresses, Argonian Elder Council members, Akaviri and Altmer Potentate.

Stormcloaks treatment towards outsiders is outright xenophobic. Slavery is already nearly going on in Windhelm. "Argonian's labor is only worth a tenth of a 'proper Nord worker.' My people are not slaves!" - Scouts-Many-Marshes

 

[HappyTroll]

Because at face value, to the average citizen who either has a basic understanding of the great war, or revered Talos, it appears the imperials are the puppet of the AD or at the very least,
the "bad guys". That's my take. ,

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Jeremius]

Every race is accepted. Orc Lords, Dunmer Empresses, Argonian Elder Council members, Akaviri and Altmer Potentate.

wanted to talk about this part specifically. This is all true, as long as you further their goals. IF you fight them, then realize your mistake, it is too late, you die.

 

[DrunkenMage]

wanted to talk about this part specifically. This is all true, as long as you further their goals. IF you fight them, then realize your mistake, it is too late, you die.

Not really, the Empire doesn't always kill you if you fight them. They have been known to do things in a diplomatic way. Such as the Redguards and their rebellion, which forced Tiber Septim to sign a treaty with them. Which for the Redguards meant "are part of the Empire, but not a subject"

Uprisings have been settled peacefully many times.

 

[Jeremius]

wanted to talk about this part specifically. This is all true, as long as you further their goals. IF you fight them, then realize your mistake, it is too late, you die.

Not really, the Empire doesn't always kill you if you fight them. They have been known to do things in a diplomatic way. Such as the Redguards and their rebellion, which forced Tiber Septim to sign a treaty with them. Which for the Redguards meant "are part of the Empire, but not a subject"

Uprisings have been settled peacefully many times.

When it comes to war, "with us or against us" is not just a Stormcloak/Ulfric motto.