Who is Herself?

[imaginepageant]

I was just watching a Let's Play video and caught something on the subtitles that I've never noticed in my own game, since I play with subtitles off. In the Thalmor Embassy, two Altmer have the following conversation:

Soldier 1: Did you see those robes march in this morning? Who're they with? More of the Emissary's treaty enforcers?​

Soldier 2: No. They're high mages, just in from Alinor. I guess Herself is finally getting worried about all the dragon attacks.​

​

Soldier 1: Ah, good. I've been wondering how we were supposed to defend this place from a dragon.​

​

Soldier 2: If a dragon does show up, maybe we'll get lucky and it will eat the mages first. Might give us enough time to kill it.​

Who is Herself? My curiosity is piqued, and I can't seem to find an answer around the Interwebs, so I'm hoping someone here can shed some light on this mysterious person. Or is she a true mystery?

 

[Hadean]

my guess is Skyrim:Elenwen - UESPWiki

 

[Gehenna]

I don't recall exactly what it is, but it's not Elenwen, unless it refers to a title she holds. In Morrowind there are tons of references to this, including a full set of armor (I believe it's called "Her Hands Armor"). Unfortunately I fail at searching today because the word "herself" is too generic a search term, but I'd start with the Morrowind wiki and check the lore from there. Morrowind:Morrowind - UESPWiki

 

[Docta Corvina]

I've always assumed that they're referring to Elenwen, myself. Given that the conversation occurs in the Embassy, given its content, and the dialogue I noticed during that mission, I'm thinking the soldiers are referring to her in that sort of disparaging tone that comes with the use of "Herself" or "Himself". You know, that implicit accusation of haughtiness. Maybe I just grew up hearing relatives use it a lot about one another (lol), but that's who I think it is.

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

But, using 'Herself' is incorrect in a sentence like that. It would be 'she' normally. Could just be an error on Beths part, but that's a mighty big error in my eyes.

 

[Docta Corvina]

"Herself" is a colloquial way of referring to someone who you might say is arrogant or haughty. It's grammatically incorrect, but the usage is colloquial. As far as I can tell, it's something of an Irish thing, a way of calling someone full of themselves. Explains why I heard it used so much in my family lol!

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

Pffft, I've never heard of such a thing. If I want to call someone arrogant, I just simply do. Unless, they are referring to someone who uses that as a title, I feel it's a mistake. I don't think they are talking about Elenwen, unless that's a title of hers of some sort.

 

[Docta Corvina]

LOL, well, as I said, it seems to have some Irish roots. Or at least prevalence. You may not have heard of it, but that doesn't make it any less used. I doubt it's a formal title - if anything, it's used to mock her status and haughtiness.

 

[imaginepageant]

I didn't think it was Elenwen, either, mainly because the first soldier refers to her "the Emissary" immediately before the second mentions Herself. It seems odd that they would refer to Elenwen with two different titles in back-to-back sentences.

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

I didn't think it was Elenwen, either, mainly because the first soldier refers to her "the Emissary" immediately before the second mentions Herself. It seems odd that they would refer to Elenwen with two different titles in back-to-back sentences.

I agree. It's either a typo mistake on Bethesda's part, or it's someone different altogether.

 

[Docta Corvina]

Again, it's a pronoun that when used as a subject may well imply arrogance. Tis colloquial. Taken from Wiki page on Hiberno-English:

Reflection for emphasis

The reflexive version of pronouns is often used for emphasis or to refer indirectly to a particular person, etc., according to context. Herself, for example, might refer to the speaker's boss or to the woman of the house. Use of herself or himself in this way often indicates that the speaker attributes some degree of arrogance or selfishness to the person in question. Note also the indirectness of this construction relative to, for example, She's coming now

• "'Tis herself that's coming now." Is í féin atá ag teacht anois.
• "Was it all of ye or just yourself?" Ar sibhse go léir ná tusa féin a bhí i gceist?

This is not limited only to the verb to be: it is also used with to have when used as an auxiliary; and, with other verbs, the verb to dois used. This is most commonly used for intensification.

• "This is strong stuff, so it is."
• "We won the game, so we did."

Might not be her, but I honestly don't think context fits anyone else. Unless there's a shadow figure lady running around somewhere. Which could be, I suppose.

 

[imaginepageant]

Corvina, is it common for the term to be capitalized when used in that sense? That's what initially grabbed my attention—the fact that it's capitalized. It makes it seem like a name or title...

 

[Docta Corvina]

I will say that my experience with it has more often been in a spoken context, rather than textual. So I can't honestly comment on the frequency of capitalization of the pronoun. However, in the few textual instances I have seen, they have had it both capitalized and not. I also am inclined to believe that it was done so here as a way of again looking back to her name and with that added implicit commentary on her personality/character.

Obviously I don't work for Beth, so I could be totally off the mark here. But I think that the usage I've noted here is relevant to the overall discussion, even if it ends up being erroneous. Maybe we could write Beth and get it clarified officially.

 

[Seagull]

Corvina, is it common for the term to be capitalized when used in that sense? That's what initially grabbed my attention—the fact that it's capitalized. It makes it seem like a name or title...

I'd say that because referring to someone as "herself" is being sarcastically deferential, capitalising it so it seems like a title reinforces that meaning. Or it's a typo!

 

[imaginepageant]

But I think that the usage I've noted here is relevant to the overall discussion, even if it ends up being erroneous.

Oh, definitely! That they're referring to Elenwen seems the most obvious possibility, but I love a good mystery, so I'm prone to believing Herself is some secretive evil queen of Alinor or something along those lines.

 

[Docta Corvina]

Oh, definitely! That they're referring to Elenwen seems the most obvious possibility, but I love a good mystery, so I'm prone to believing Herself is some secretive evil queen of Alinor or something along those lines.

Haha, I love a good mystery too - it is more intriguing to think about it being some undisclosed Altmer leader somewhere, I'll admit. Beth likes to fling little dialogue bits and clues at us about all manner of things in this game - it gets me thinking too hard and looking too far into everything, and I love them for it!

 

[Gehenna]

My theory is that it has something to do with elven society, but then again Morrowind was all about Dark Elves and the NPCs in question are all High Elves. Don't know, as I'm not all versed on the lore of it all. I just recall someone referred to as Herself in Morrowind, and then there was the Her Hands armor set. Following links on the Wiki makes me think Herself could refer to this character. Tribunal:Almalexia - UESPWiki

Or I could be totally wrong and they could be talking about how haughty they find Elenwen. Kind of like I used to call one of my ex-bosses "Her Royal Hiney" under my breath. LMAO

 

[Dagmar]

Herself is a Celtic/Irish term for a woman of consequence. It's not inherently disparaging but it can be depending on how it's said much like referring to someone as "her eminence" in a sarcastic tone while rolling ones eyes. I believe they are referring to Elenwen. Contextually it makes sense since the term is applicable to her and she would have the authority to request additional security for the Embassy in case of a dragon attack. There's nothing particularly odd about using different terms for a person in the same conversation.

 

[Vinz]

I always assumed they were referring to Elenwen. It seems to fit in the context anyways as being the ambassador must give her the rights to call in more protection from back home.

 

[DdraigGwyn]

Corvina and Dagmar are correct about the etymology: the term (himself/herself) was widely used 100+ years ago to refer to anyone in a position of authority, and generally was done so in a derogatory fashion. For example, a maid would use it when talking about her mistress‘ behavior (herself was in a foul mood this morning). Source: my grandmother who was in service back in the day.